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tirea na'vi - na'vi spirit

[ the writings of a na'vi 'kin ]

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Issues with my ban - why it is unjust

There are several aspects of my ban from otherkin.com that I have a problem with. I have mentioned some in comments here and there, but as this is rather disjointed I felt that it would be helpful to gather them all and document them here.

-> There has been no reply from "admin" to my e-mail which politely inquired as to the reason and outlined some of my issues with some of the comments. The lack of response is disappointing, as I believe that one of the key points to running a community fairly is contact and interaction with the memberbase.

-> My profile gives my gender as unspecified for a reason. Some members of OK.com seem to be unaware that not everyone in the world is cisgender. Gender is a spectrum and a sliding scale, not two exclusive states, and more than two options exist - there are polygender, transgender, gender neutral and bigender people like myself to consider. I feel that stating this as a reason for my not being sincere is insensitive to my psychological issues with my gender and a form of discrimination.

-> I was not given a chance to defend myself to the latest burst of posts. There were a number of recent and new responses to my introduction thread, some of which were lengthy and a fair few of which raised some very valid points, particularly the one by the Internet Lawyer. However, my chance to defend myself was taken away and it looks as if I could not answer their questions. I believe that this is a plot on behalf of the management to make me look bad. I plan to post my response to these messages regardless, here on my LJ, at a later date.

-> I was not given sufficient time for there to be any significant or meaningful change in my 'kin-type. From Dragonslore's comments and the brief discussion, it seems that I have been banned because I had not been "making an effort to discover other options" and that there had been "no great shift in my thinking". I would like to point out that indeed I have been making an effort to look into other options (Fae, aquatic types, etcetera - see the topic in the Fae subforum). I would like to point out that it had only been around a week, and for any change to occur more time is needed. I was given a lot of advice and provided with a lot of suggestions: as such, there are a lot of options for me to look into and a lot of research for me to do. A few days is not a sufficient amount of time for that to take place, and that is probably why it seemed that there has been "no great shift in my thinking". Surely the Awakened people at OK.com are aware of this.

-> The members seemed to be irked that I was not documenting all my thoughts and possible changes and that I was not providing evidence for taking their advice on board. To this I will respond by re-emphasizing the small time frame and also saying that as such reflection is a personal, internalized process, most of it was taking place inside my head. I should not have to feel pushed to provide "evidence" or to write everything down just to prove myself. I would have written up my thoughts and reflections at a later date, when my head felt clearer.

-> I am actually happy to edit my profile. I'm happy to make amendments to the 'kin-type status field of the profile form, to make it more acceptable and approvable. It seems that on OK.com if the admin takes issue to the way you label yourself, you get banned.

-> There was very little basis to ban me on. Outside of my mistake with links in my signature, I did not break the rules. Indeed, I tried hard to step lightly and follow the regulations as laid out. I believe I was polite and approachable, but also honest about my feelings and my current thoughts. The issue here is that several, if not a lot of members, broke the rules themselves (specifically rule 2.3), in some cases multiple times and even after the 2.3 rule had been quoted to them by a member. I believe there is an issue with the running of the community if someone as polite and passive as I was was banned and members who explicity broke the rules even after re-emphasis of said rules were barely even admonished by a moderator/administrator nor given a warning.

-> I realize that they have to be brutally curious of new members. However I believe that there is a definite and distinct difference between being "brutally" curious and heated, harsh, and offensive. In particular I saw them mocking me in other but related threads. This I find to be very disappointing.

-> I am not fluffy. Fluff is someone claiming to be a faerie queene with the ability to make flowers grow where she steps; fluff is a dragonkin who claims to be a dragonlord and claims the ability of pyrokinesis. I am not any of the characters from James Cameron's Avatar. I do not think I have special powers in this body. I simply identify with and feel a connection to the Na'vi race as a whole. Who are otherkin.com to judge me for that?

-> The rules explicitly state to not attack someone for their beliefs. It says that you are free to not believe what the individual says, and free to disagree. It does not say that you can attack and judge them. I have been disrespected and judged just because my 'kin-type is a little outside of the norm. I have been attacked and banned because I do not conform. This I feel is highly distasteful. I would have thought a community like otherkin.com would accept diversity and respect someone else's beliefs, especially if they typed properly and were polite. However it seems that OK.com only allows certain kinds of 'kin to join. This is a form of discrimination.

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I read your thread on that forum & I was appalled at how elitist it seemed. Like you, I would have assumed a place like that would be more welcoming to people. It was like the Spanish Inquisition. I commend you for being so graceful about it. I'm so sensitive, I would have been reduced to tears honestly.

I definitely understand that "Avatar" is a movie. It's a race that was created in someone's mind, but the universe is vast, amazing & anything in possible. What triggered this race in that person's mind? Where did the inspiration come from? Why isn't it possible that something similar DOES exist out there beyond our reach?

Thank you for your comment and your commendation - I am so glad to know that someone agrees with me. (: "Elitist" I believe is the word I have been looking for - "discrimination" was not exactly right. I did lurk for a while previously, and while I was aware that they weren't a bundle of sunshine and a basket of kittens (therefore when members persisted in commenting to me, "I can't believe you're surprised at your negative reception" I could not help but raise an eyebrow) I still did not expect the intensity and the extent of what I met there.

I definitely also understand that it is a movie (a beautiful one!). I agree with your thoughts there - that those things are valid and possible - things like that are among the theories dotted around the community. However, even if nothing does exist out there and even if the inspiration came from a purely internal and mental source on James Cameron's part, it is still valid to identify with and feel a connection to Na'vi as a species. Fictional or otherwise, it is valid, and this is what otherkin.com seems to be failing to grasp (and this is an issue for me, because it means I cannot join in and participate as elf-kin and dragon-kin, etcetera, are able to). :/

I can only speak for myself, as I am neither an admin or a moderator of the forum, but here are my replies to your issues-

>If you sent a message to Darkwander then plase be patient, he runs (or co-runs at least) more than one forum and a few shops (I believe) so patience is probably gong to be a good route to follow.

>Gender and sex are different-
Gender= Masculine/Feminine (and everything in between)
Sex= Physically Male/Female
In that is also sexual preference, sexuality and gender dysmorphia. But ok.com gives Biological sex options of 'Male/Female' and not gender options.
Either way it wouldn't have been used against you; we have members who leave their sex unspecified and even members who put down the sex that correleates with their gender preference (and not necessarily their biological form), so your gender preferences wouldn't have been an issue.

>The last few posts on your introduction topic were not a main deciding factor. I know this for sure but don't feel comfortable disclosing why I know this.

>When it came to this I gave you my personal opinion of what may have been wrong; I can't speak for everyone on the forum, I can only guess. So please don't use that opinion as a know-all-end-all about why you were banned; I'd hate you to think that was what it was.

>Same as above point.

>Labelling is very helpful for members, mods and admins of the forum alike, but would not have contributed heavly to your ban. Well, not unless you changed it multiple times to multiple kin/therio-types in a short amount of time.

>I'm sure the appropriate warning were given out, usually they are done through private messaging.

>I think in some cases people were overly harsh, or impolite. But that's my personal opinion.

>Fluff can be defined in many ways, not all people who have turned out to be fluffy have been as obvious as you suggest. But the lines are blurry with fluff; especially when it comes to fiction/otaku-kin.

>While it is nice to think that the world would allow people not to be attacked for their beliefs it just doesn't work that way; and some belifs do need to be questioned sometimes, and even attacked. I'm not saying that your particular beliefs need attacking, just that it is naive to assume that beliefs will not come under scrutiny, and should not.

To answer one of your earlier questions (which seems relevant) about some non-conventional kin that we have previously had, here are a few-
-Kitsune (when they were often rejected)
-Phoenix (again, when they were rejected)
-An old and acient wyrm that was once considered a god (though they were questioned alot they were, eventually, accepted).
-Troll (as in the actual mythological kind)

And that's to name a few.

I hope this has helped clear up a few things for you.

I followed a link on OK.com that said "e-mail the admin", so I presume it went to Darkwander. I do believe that patience is a virtue and I understand that real life comes first; however it has been a good few days now, and on OK.com a good few days is apparently the span of time for considerable things to happen. Perhaps the members of OK.com could have demonstrated some patience (and above all tolerance) while I carried on my journey. :/

I am well aware (probably more aware than most) that gender and sex are different things. Sex is in the biology and gender is a mental state and how you identify, or in some schools of thought a sociological construct. However, OK.com explictly contains a profile field entitled "gender", and so that is what I took it as. I believe that you can be "male" and "female" in gender, and that it is not just "masculine" or "feminine". You can be biologically male (read: sex - male) and have "female" as a gender, either a feminine female or masculine female. Because that last sentence contains three fields; sex, gender, and /gender presentation/.

It is however good to know that leaving the gender field unspecified is not basis for banning. Yet, some of the comments on OK.com regarding my state of gender are absolutely offensive. Calling someone an "it", or a "whatever it is", etcetera, is insensitive and discriminatory against the non-cisgender.

Why do you not feel comfortable disclosing this? Is it because you have been involved in moderator and administrator discussions regarding the subject? What, then, were the main deciding factors? I am still waiting for someone to tell me and explain to me why I was banned, when I have done nothing other than identify with a non-human species in a forum /which is explictly for [discussion about] that very purpose/.

I am not taking it as the be all and end all; however if you as an established reasonable member felt that way, I think it is safe to assume that you are at least slightly representative of some of the rest of the memberbase and as such to assume that some others might have felt the same way, too.

I did not change it to multiple 'kin-types and was not planning to. I read this in the rules and planned to follow said regulation; again, I read and followed the rules and yet I was banned.

The only warning I received was for the above-mentioned having a signature which contained links. I understood why I received that warning and accepted my punishment, because I knew that I was at fault in that instance. However, outside of that private message, I received no warnings whatsoever, and if I did I was not given enough time to access my account to read and act on them before being banned.

I have said that I understand beliefs being looked at critically, assessed and put under scrutiny. But there is a great distinction between this and /outright mocking/, which /went unpunished/.

Thank you for providing the list of non-conventional 'kin that have accessed the forum before. I would have thought however that dinosaur therianthropy is entirely acceptable (though of course not common), because therianthropy is the state of identifying with extant or extinct species. By lindworm do you mean the recent lindwormkin? I ask because I saw a moderator subtly questioning him in a topic somewhere. Regarding phoenixes, I saw one recently accepted and that there was one currently on the boards - why were some accepted and others rejected, out of curiosity? Finally, I do not understand how wyvern could be questioned (if they were at all), when it is highly similar to if not a subspecies of dragon.

Thank you.

I don't know what went on behind cosed doors as it were, but some of the mods seem to be on a bit of a (very minor) power trip.

They do seem to be on a bit of a power trip, particularly Zimmerchild. It seems as if being fictionkin alone is basis to be banned and that if you speak out and are honest you will be bannef for not conforming.

I followed to here via FanWank...and I just want to say that I think you comported yourself well throughout the whole experience. You're not the one that truly looks bad here.

I have seen the entry on Fandom Wank (which is incidentally I site I follow and a site that provides me with much amusement). Thank you very much for your positive comment. (:

dont let them get to you...

I wanna let you know that I think what happened to you was horrid, no one has a right to attack what you believe.
I think its very brave of you to come out and tell us what happened. I hope you don't ever let any one make you question what you feel to be right.
Take care of your self.
Elita One

Re: dont let them get to you...

Thank you very much. (: Supportive messages are very appreciated and make me feel better about myself and the way I handled things. I simply cannot believe that dragons, elves, and vampires would discriminate against a fellow otherkin in such a way purely because of the species they identify with. It is unacceptable.

Thank you once again.

If you want a faster response, you may wanna try on IRC.


What is IRC?

I do not mind waiting, it just seemed that there would be no reply. Incidentally, more time has passed since I made that entry and there is still no reply. (:

The otherkin community as a whole hates otakukin and deal with them as though they were the enemy. It's really very sad.

In defence of the community at large, a ton of otakukin present themselves as bonkers in the first place. To be honest, Tirea is one of the first sane "fictionkin" I've met.

OK i couldn't really pass by this thread without answering, i will use an alias to answer this post, bare in mind while this post will contain criticism i do not hold any offense against you as an individual or in your spiritual beliefs, i simply want to perhaps guide you a little, i normally don't stop to such threads, simply because most of the time its pointless to do so, but ill try this time.

one question first though.

------> My profile gives my gender as unspecified for a reason. Some members of OK.com seem to be unaware that not everyone in the world is cisgender. Gender is a spectrum and a sliding scale, not two exclusive states, and more than two options exist - there are polygender, transgender, gender neutral and bigender people like myself to consider. I feel that stating this as a reason for my not being sincere is insensitive to my psychological issues with my gender and a form of discrimination.

Ok although there is only 4 states of gender to be honest with you, male, female, both or none although the last one does not come up in the physical world, because a animal or plant that cannot reproduce it self would not survive, my question is though, if you are a part of the navi, which obviously are classified as male and female, why would you want to specify your gender as anything else but that, doesn't really seem logical, but anyway that's not why i stopped to answer this thread.

To you and all other "Navi", excuse me for putting it in ""'s but ill explain soon enough why i did that. First of all, to otherkin.com, while its maybe the obvious site because of the name it holds it is hardly the most friendliest site, same goes for sites like astral society and ect, the thing with these sites is that they tend to establish a strict method of thinking about otherkin, usually delivered by the owners and moderators of the sites and they are followed only according to their own beliefs and that is why you will hit a wall every time you throw something that doesn't fit into the standard frame of thinking, and thus mainly being the reason resulting in your ban, those sites are stagnated and refuse to accept anything else.

The second issue with all the "Navi" is well where the idea is coming from, ive been in the otherkin community for well about 7 or 8 years now, since the very beginning sprouts of it, till what it is now, and believe me we had our share of everything, harry potter universe fans, bleah, naruto, dragonball z and ect fans which still haunt the net with their absurd fantasies of blasting kamehameha's in the physical and anyone who can prove me wrong ill let you chop my right hand off (yes im right handed), ever since twilight came out there has suddenly emerged a huge band of vampires who can sparkle in the sun and so on, there has been hundreds of examples through out the years, some less ridiculous, some more, but there has been plenty, so a lot of people who are into this for longer period of times get irritated by people claiming they are yet again some movie character that looks cool, i mean heck i met 4 people that claimed they are the fantastic 4 in the astral, so now imagine a person who had to go through all these waves and didn't bother to keep an open mind, try to look from his perspective, you would ban your self too most likely.

Now don't get me wrong though, im not saying that you claiming you are "Navi" is absurd, no not at all, there are tens of thousands of various races in the astral (i will call it astral for simplification although i should refer to it as astrophysical since that's where all the angels and ect are) but anyway im not dismissing the fact that a race of blue humanoid creatures that RESEMBLE navi, and that word is your biggest mistake because look at how those communities work, at their classification, we always have the ussual, angel, demon, fea, elves (which technically should fall under the fea)(shouldn't it be fey? lol), dragons, and vampires and therans which technically do not even classify as otherkin, but well whatever, and that's all, you got the 5-7 major types and then there is the general forum with everyone else, but go through the posts in that general forum, even those are always the same, it'll be some phoenixes, some reptilians and other usual stuff, which will bring the total count to what like 15? and thats it? well ok looking deeper maybe you will find 1 or 2 unique, but do you see the problem here? no one wants different, everyone likes to label, to classify into something we can understand easily with using names that have been invented centuries ago, trying to shove things into categories. Take elves for example, im not saying elves are not real, but the current image of elves was invented by uncle Tolkien, the elves as they come in folklore and myths are close to what they showed in harry potter (excuse me for referencing that but since most seen it, it will be an easy comparison image) and would be classified under fey creatures, the elves as Tolkien described them, while existing they shouldn't be called elves at all, thats the problem with labeling. And when you come into saying you are Navi, you throw a label that is from a movie that has just been a cult and of course everyone looks at you like your some hallucinating freak. You would have better chance if you came in and said you are some Titikanabakukusana tribe thing and then describing it, and albeit it might be similar to Navi there is even a chance no one will make the reference or even if they will no one will make a big deal of it most likely, try it your self you'll see.

To qoute you:
I am not any of the characters from James Cameron's Avatar. I do not think I have special powers in this body. I simply identify with and feel a connection to the Na'vi race as a whole. Who are otherkin.com to judge me for that?

You have a valid point, they shouldn't, but they will, and they will judge you and not only you but all the others claiming that they are navi, (not to mention a quite strong cover of those who are fluff in this) so ill tell you honestly, strip the name, identify your self as something similar, and by all means seek your awakening, do not let them bring you down and you can get there, just keep in mind about what i said about the stagnation and labeling in such communities, while sometimes there are some good advice there, although rarely, if you really plan to seek help there you would probably rather approach them with tagging your self under some other label, say your some sea or whatever elf, and they will gladly open handed accept you even if you give a description of a navi, thats the sad part.

Good luck with this all and your awakening



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