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tirea na'vi - na'vi spirit

[ the writings of a na'vi 'kin ]

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My Experiences With otherkin.com - Racism? Or Finally Accepted At Last?

Recently I joined www.otherkin.com and created a profile, signing up to the forum (as you are probably aware, especially considering I linked to the website in my previous journal entry). I did so because I was seeking comfort from a community of like-minded individuals. I wanted to discuss everything with similar people, interact with people who understand, and be among people like myself. I was also seeking some form of support, I suppose - my other-ness can be very hard for me to deal with, sometimes.

I have been on the receiving end of some very harsh posts. I think this harshness was completely unwarranted. I understand some level of skepticism but I did not expect such a cold reception and being derided. I think that some people need to come to terms with the fictionality of their kin-species, and not be so mean.

Since then, things have cleared up a little. I have a niggling feeling that some comments are still subtle attacks - there was one recently, where I asked about tail'd Fae, and they replied "trolls". I was upset at this stab at my intellect - I am certainly not as stupid as a troll. Do trolls even classify as Fae? Their tails aren't even that long. Anyway, such comments I have decided to put down to discrimination, possibly because I am an alien species or perhaps my skin color is too foreign to them. I even had a passing thought, that they might be heightist (my otherself is a lot taller than the majority of theirs, possibly even to the extent where it's intimidating). But in general, things are looking up. Some members post very helpful answers to my questions. The sun feels a little warmer on the horizon.

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Sadly, that's how Otherkin is. I joined there awhile ago and was bashed by a few members in a chat on another site, so I stopped posting. I am currently on Werelist where I was warmly welcomed and I have made many friends but they don't tolerate bullshit of course.

I really hope things clear up. Why were you bashed? Your other-type isn't even that weird. I considered Werelist, but surely it's for therians, not otherkin?

Otherkin.com used to be known as a prime "fluff breedingground", fluff intending posers and wishkin. Unless you make sense right away, they are harsh. Well, that was a year ago.. far too active site for my liking.

As you are human now, and I certainly hope people there understand that they are too, I don't see any reason for them talking down on you for identifying with a very tall creature.

Trolls, according to swedish lore, vary in sizes where the small ones would have (unless I remember incorrectly) a tail at least as long as the rest of their bodies.. I reckon they would be considered fae.
Besides, who are you to say that trolls are dumb?

On heightism, it was just a passing thought. This happens to be my journal. That's what people do in journals, document passing thoughts.

With regards to OK.com, I have lurked in and out of there for a good few years now, as a good few years is about the span of my journey; so I think I would know, but thanks.

Who are you to say I should see a shrink because I'm a Na'vi 'kin?

I would know, I'm surprised my journal still has readers for the same reason.

Because the people I've 'met' so far who identify with fictional characters have, and I swear, all been in a pretty dire need of a shrink.

You do seem to break the pattern.

Your journal probably still has readers because you are a reasonable and intelligent-seeming person, as well as an interesting individual.

I do realize that the majority of fictionkin are more than a little insane. It is very unfortunate.

Thank you! I hope to go on breaking the pattern, for the benefit of future Na'kin everywhere.

Because the people I've 'met' so far who identify with fictional characters have, and I swear, all been in a pretty dire need of a shrink.

This is because the saner of us like to keep quiet. I am only using this journal (this kind of stuff for me has been moved over to another journal service), to keep my normal journal separate from what others might use to say I am insane. Also, I do go to a therapist and I am really not fond of the word shrink as it degrades the profession.

I can assure you that people on otherkin.com do not discriminate against people because of the hight or skin colour of their kin-type; as most people on otherkin.com would feel that this is a ridiculous reason to discriminate against a person for (me included).

I have already listed my reasons for being slightly skeptical of your claims, though I did not mean my post to be offensive, just thought provoking.

I think the main reason for your unacceptance is the fact that you didn't seem to take anything that we said into regard for very long; e.g. People would suggest to you that you should perhaps consider other races, possibilities or even simply what the true nature of the Na'vi is and you would agree with their suggestions breifly and then, essentially, seem to throw them aside and retain exactly the same ideas as you did before.

I don't know about other people on the forum but that rather irks me as I spent a fair amount of time and effort considering what things you might want to take into consideration you help your awakening as a Na'vi-kin (or something similar) and then typing it down. To see you seemingly just disregard everything I said is kind of a downer at the least and down right frustrating at its worst.

I also think a fair-few people got aggitated by the fact that you were trying to say "Well I'm fictional and so are you so deal with it". After all, not everyone considers their kin-type to be fictional, or to be the result of a fictional race; and the fact that you were insisting upon us being fictional lead to some members thinking that you were simply an internet troll trying to get the community to admit that they're all 'pretending to be fictional creatures, lol' or something along those line.

What you have to realise is that otherkin.com is a very active and very easily accesable community, as such we have to be quite brutally curious when it comes to new members; this means that potential trolls and fluff bunnies get to do minimum damage to the community.

Ok.om is also a very intellectually minded community, in the way that debates are at the centre of the community more often then not; so when we had our first potential Na'vi-kin walk in the doors we all went into the mode of 'Is this possible? How is it possible? If it is then what's to be considered considering the obvious human agendas, themes and creations in the movie? How long should one take considering the possibility of being Na'vi-kin? Etc. etc.'.

I can understand how this may have been frustrating to you as you wanted a community that would accept you and understand you and all we could offer is questions , criticisms and long debates on the possibilities of fiction-kin. But, at the end of the day, no community is going to all have the same opinions, tolerance-levels, ideas, etc. and fiction-kin often split opinions and raise questions.

If a community does just blindly accept you for being Na'vi-kin, without a single question I would warn you to tread carefully, because being with a group of people that offer you no questions and only blind support can often lead you down the wrong path (even if it's not their intention to do so).

I hope this helps you understand a litle bit more about why you recived the reception you did at ok.com, and I truly do hope that you do consider some of my points and that you even take the questioning a little further; after all I'm sure you know of the film development better then I do so you probably have a bigger scope of what issues need to be dealt with.

Feel free to keep in touch =)

I'm glad to know it wasn't discrimination at least, that's good to know. So thank you for clearing that one up.

Your post specifically was not offensive, and it was thought-provoking. What you seem to be irked about is how I'm not documenting and broadcasting all the thoughts that were provoked. There are some examples on OK.com - the tailed Fae thread, for example - but the majority of it was taking place inside my head. Which makes sense, I believe, since it's an internalized process personal to the individual.

I can assure you that the suggestions were not (and still are not) thrown to the side. Can I point out that only around a week, approximately, had passed - that is not enough time to consider them, think, do the research, and come to a conclusion. Everyone on OK.com was saying that the short time between the movie and my introduction is basically too short a time to come to a conclusion like "I am Na'vi" - then surely they must understand that a week is too short a time to come to a conclusion about whether I'm aquatic, Fae, a breed of elf, an alien race similar to the Na'vi, or something else entirely. What kind of change were you expecting to see in a few days?

The "fictional" business was not meant to be an implication that you don't know yourselves or that everyone is fictional and has to think so - it was a response to the statements that Na'vi are fictional. I just found it hard to understand that a dragonkin was telling me I can't be a Na'vi, because Na'vi are fictional. I understand, then, that the dragonkin, for example, might not believe that dragons are fictional - if he does not, then fair enough, and I don't see him being on the receiving end of harsh and sarcastic comments from the community for believing so. I was, however, and that was upsetting.

Despite being upset, I tried to stay polite and remain calm - I recieved a few private messages commending me on my reaction to the situation and in particular to some of the particularly toxic responses.

I realize that you have to be careful now, especially since I recently noticed and noted that some other otherkin forums are locked and membership must be approved by an admin, amongst other security measures. I do however think, that there is a difference between brutally curious and unwarranted harsh-ness. I also realize that it is an intellectual community - I noted such from the quality of the posts and the intelligent arguments about complex subjects laid out by its members. I was happy to answer questions as best I could, and to take part in discussion (I expected that). But again, some of the replies were distinctly insulting (even when someone stepped in kindly to reiterate rule 2.3, it continued). So I suppose it's my misfortune to be the first Na'vi 'kin to wander into your community. Do you treat all "firsts" of x-'kin type like that? I hope you treat your next "first" better.

I did not expect to be blindly accepted and that is not what I want. I have said before I'm happy to answer questions and try to discuss it. A group like you describe here is not what I am after.

I still do not think there was much basis to ban me. I hope the situation can be reconsidered - but I don't want to create another account to post or PM someone to say so and ask, because that would be ban-evasion, which is an offense.

You can e-mail admins if you think you were wrongly banned.

I'm sorry I didn't recognise your considerations (I see on your LJ you have said that you are going to document your progression) but it wasn't, in some cases, clear. There were some times when you would say 'We're a forgiving race' or something similar which seemed to signify that you hadn't started considering the disposition of the race. I think moments similar to this may have made people raise an eyebrow...perhaps more than me in some cases.

I too, at the moment, am going through another period of consideration...which so far has been ongoing for a few months, and which I didn't write about publically for three months; so I can appreciate a week may have been an unrealistic time for people to have expected a documented consideration from you.

I understand that you didn't mean that all otherkin have to believe that they're fictional, however you were presenting it in a way that seemed to enforce an opinion on people "You're fictional", where alot of people actually don't believe that they're fictional, or hold beliefs that don't highlight that aspect; I think this got interpreted as you trying to get an admittance out of us that we thought we were a fictional race, and therefore fiction-kin....which I don't think goes down very well.

I'm sorry that you got such harsh responses, and I was one of the people who quoted the 2.3 rule but, like I said, some people are less willing to accept fiction-kin then others; I think this belief determined some responses but, like I said, I do feel that some people's responses were unecessarily harsh.

I have known a few people who have 'broke the mold' with their kin-type, and I appreciate it personally quite alot; we shouldn't canonise kin-types too much and I think that all options for a kin-type should be considered.... although fiction, plant or machine-kin need to know how to hold their own more then others most times.

I'm glad to clear up the discrimination point for you; there are very few otherkin communities that will discriminate against a person because their kin-type is blue, or because their kin-type has red scales etc. Infact we once had a drow/dark elf-kin on ok.com (she was very nice as well ^__^).

I'm going to have to second this. I would say that it's more of a "gut-reaction" to fluff that's developed over time to weed out trolls. (I'm not a Na'vi-kin and I've never had any problem.)

Incidentally, do you now any other good ACTIVE otherkin communities? All the one's I've found seem to have caught fluff disease or are long inactive.

The Werelist is a good therian forum that also accepts otherkin (and has a fair amount of otherkin members).

Also I have heard good things about otherkin phenomenon and otherkin realms....but I don't go on there much so I couldn't give you a full reccomendation.

I have sent the admins an e-mail but have yet to receive a response.

A week is definitely too short a window of time for people to have expected documented progression and consideration. Such an expectation is ridiculously unrealistic.

It is my belief that otherkin are simply fictionkin which identify with the sort of fiction that is ages old, folkloric, and mythological. I do recall you being one of the people that quoted that regulation, so I must thank you once again for that. Some people's responses were unecessarily harsh, and I do not want to think about what it says about the community and the maintainers of the community that they did not do or say anything about and that I, the polite victim, was the only one punished.

What other 'kin-types have you seen that broke the mold? I believe I do know how to hold my own, to an extent, and I believe I did so at a decent level over on OK.com - I received messages saying people thought so and some of the replies in my thread also said so. However there seems to be an implication, "speak up or break the mold and get banned". It is very unfortunate and it is also hypocritical and an abuse of power.

I understand the gut-reaction, but I tried to illustrate how that in my case the gut-reaction was unwarranted and unnecessary. You can find otherkin communities simply by Googling "otherkin". As a quick question, can you tell me when something stops being otherkin and starts becoming fluff? Surely the border must be very hazy, a gray area.

Incidentally I have browsed Werelist.

Otherkin realms is crap to be honest lol. Otherkin community, otherkin phenomena, and otherkin alliance are the decent to really good active forums.

I have never been on Otherkin realms - why is it crap, may I ask? Do you have justifications for this assertion?

I was a member of otherkin.com and I currently lurk on Otherkin Alliance and the Werelist.

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They have indeed been racist as I have been rejected and the victim of discrimination for the species with which I identify. I am one of them, you are not spiritually aware.

A good way to back up people who think you're a troll is to do what you just did...call people who don't agree with you "narrow minded" or some other such phrase with the same basic meaning.

Someone disagreeing with you doesn't make their opinion invalid, doesn't make them not spiritually aware, etc. At the end of the day the only thing any otherkin can prove is their humanity. The rest is all personal belief...so the sooner everyone accepts that, the better off they'll be.

The fact will always remain that the only "mythos" media "races" have are media outlets...sources created by another human being about whatever "race," "species," etc...while the otherkin community at large have heaps of mythology from different cultures to draw on...which is the main reason why "fictionkin" are questioned, not widely accepted, and occassionally ridiculed in the otherkin community at large.

child0fbalance, they are free to disagree with me. I do not expect everybody to agree with me. Disagreeing with a viewpoint is a human right. We can agree to disagree. The reason I call them "narrow-minded" is because they are openly mocking and disrepecting me for my beliefs. Now, as I said - it is okay to disagree, but it is not right to mock and abuse somebody.

Again, the people I am terming "spiritually unaware" are the people who are taking pains and going to such lengths to mock, insult, and belittle me and mine. Again, I am aware that people are free to disagree. I am human, and I am aware of this fact - human in mind and body, science and biology. I simply identify with the Na'vi. That is an abstract concept and it needs no justification or proving. I do not need to provide "evidence" or "proof". It is a personal feeling, and it needs no accepting.

You are correct, that the myths and stories of the majority of the otherkin community are cross-cultural and rooted in time and the mindsets of ancient peoples. However, I would point out that they are /still/ sources created by another human being, global or local, old or new. They were created by another human being, and the only difference is that this was done some time ago.

The ridicule is not "occasional". From what I have seen it seems quite common. The otherkin community otherkin.com, for example, have a whole subforum dedicated to it. The ridicule is what is narrow-minded. The ridicule is what is not on. I expect all otherkin beliefs to be questioned; otherwise you cannot foster a rational and intellectual community and end up with fluffy and misguided members.

You are deluded. Believing that you are a fictional character is a mental disease. Seek professional help.

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